Its a fair question. Thats interesting. A 15th century religious darkness is descending upon McLean Bible Church? Smyth of Covenant Life Church. We dont know how intimately accquainted Peter and the other Apostles were with all the Jerusalem believers, but it sounds like their lifestyle would lend itself to knowing each other much better than todays mega church pastor. He needed to do so because he gets a good salary from the IMB. Look for a church in which the pastor knows your name and will sit by your bedside when you are in the hospital. Must be a slow reading inefficient thinker. I attended McLean Bible for about 4 years starting in 2000 and it certainly wasnt Neo Cal then. the title teaching pastor means they do not have to interact with the peasant pew sitters. I would not list this as something that I need. That was a while back, though, when parsonages were still en vogue. According to SBC This Week, he has all sorts of arrangements so he can *serve* his family. . We had not heard of David Platt before he came there, but we have already decided we will be moving on. But they serve others, and visit the sick. Remaining dependent on that sermon as your primary source of scriptural input seems odd too. It is the body of Christ. For all the problems which have been pointed out about SBC Voices, Dave Miller, et al, made sure that the speakers at the 2017 SBC Pastors Conference (the prelude to the annual SBC gathering/business meeting) came from small churches (< 500 members) and, though all were male, they were not all white. He speaks at the Southern Baptist Convention God is interested in and respects what we think, our initiative, our ideas, our plans, our decisions They care about as much about the Bible as they do about the truth, about justice, about the Fruits of the Spirit, about Jesus, and about those who have been made in His image. Maybe I did not put it across very well and I certainly agree with you about the importance of the two great commandments. Just suggesting we might try doing things His way if we want them to turn out well. In kind renumeration is not a salary as you mention. Having been in SBC churches for 20 years, I can honestly say that most megachurch sermons are shallow and quite devoid of teaching of Scripture. Im afraid Lon wanted out and this was the easy road. Its true that not everyone likes it, but many people do. Unless you show me some passages that demonstrate it was the norm. I hear you. @ refugee: No liberal lefty here, in fact, not really political at all, Our friends are grounded, thoughtful and medically qualified; and not remotely given to sensationalism or exaggeration. Rather than whole-wheat flour with all its bran and uneven texture, enriched bleached white flour makes a uniform product and its cheaper and plentiful from corporate granaries that have their own juggernaut marketing and distribution channels. Next week, we will address some of the explanations by the other commentators. I was furious but also too new to the church and too scared to call him out on it. Therefore, Who God is and what He has done is paramount for the faith community. WebDec 1, 2019 John Ross Bowie doesn't really have a lisp, but he fakes it admirably well and with hilarious results as Bawwy Kwipke - er, I mean Barry Kripke - on The Big Bang Theory. Silence, as the cancer stealthy grows? Out of that tent of meeting comes the grateful and loving response of worship and service. Please dont tell me that Lon believes in Calvanismwould break my heart. Keeping that statement in mind, what does he say about Platt's new role at teaching pastor? @ Jeffrey J Chalmers: Celebrity pastors who are in it for the fame, money, or to deceptively change a church polity. ), @ Law Prof: David Platt states that he spends 20-25 hours preparing for one sermon. This is true. It has less than half the members and attendance it had when he came. I dont believe providing free spaces to commercial growers and businesses should be considered a community service. https://www.mcleanbible.org/blog/letter-lon-solomon. Many today are flocking to leadership seminars in order to learn how to fish from successful fishermen sociological pragmatism, pop psychology, new models of ministry, and ad nausea. Of course, a lot of people in their church have no idea their pastor has somebody else write their sermons and they dont go elsewhere very often, so they wouldnt realize it. Incidentally, that is. You get character development, plot development and backstory. He was completely tone deaf to our concerns. I can remember on pastor in my lifetime that handled the role fairly well, but Ive known others who truly were pastors. As far as being a teacher to the world, I hope the world reads scripture, knows Jesus, and does not believe everything that comes from Davids mouth or writings. Is Lons final act his final rock drop by event'(tm) to take MBC, its 25,000 people and the whole of the Washington D. C. area for a dark closeted stealthy ride into Calvinisms Dystopian fake gospel? If you had a church in a city that had been owned free and clear for a 100 years it would end up being impossible to run if it wasnt flush with cash. Guest speaker or consultant perhaps, but not a pastor. Dee, I really like this post, as I used to work at St. Thomas, an Episcopal Church across the street from McLean Bible. The role of the pastor is to embody the gospel. But I could be mis-understanding you. So, again, how is this guy spending 20-25 hours a week on a sermon? But, and this is key: most of the day-to-day organizational leadership in large organizations and churches is done by choosing good people in both places. Why are we surprised at those results when were flat begging for them? I cant think of any big names in the UK but that doesnt matter there are plenty of gifted people within local churches. Exactly! MBC needs to pray for discernment and examine Davids teachings. But the church leaders who are in bed with the Gospel Coalition and selling books by Mahaney himself, or DeYoung, Carson, Piper and the others really should know better. to be more specific, they said that their insurer advised them that if they were to let anyone use their facility other than another non-profit, it could jeopardize their tax-exempt status. Sadly yes the FIEC has become the beachhead for T4G/TGC and the 9Marxist groups. @ Mandavilla: As I wrote last night, the trend over the last 20 years (and especially the last 10 years) has been consolidation of power around Mohler and Mohler loyalists with the only doctrinal essentials being Authoritarianism (meaning loyalty to whatever they say) and Complementarianism. The leadership is far to often unaware of, or opposed to, the real church that sometimes begins to form. Take this opportunity to tell these supposed *pastors* what you think a pastor should be. Whenever I feel ashamed to be a Southern Baptist because of the reputation and antics of these snake oil salesmen, I have to remind myself that they are clearly NOT Southern Baptiststhey have only ridden on the coat tails of the SBC to seize fame and fortune. I wonder when they will roll it out. I usually dread listening to missionaries speak, anticipating the guilt trip that they sometime put on other people for not being as extreme and missional and sacrificial as them. At MBC we have a large pastoral staff who make hospital visits, perform weddings and funerals, etc. Often, they are on the same track, preaching the same series, with a slightly different title for each series. Not a clue. @ Gram3: __. @ Hope: This present darkness is not just doctrine, (Best to take a lk for yourself, before its too late), Spy If one is to fulfill the requirements of love, then it is not enough that God loves us but we must also love God, the first and greatest commandment. I hate that. Wasnt there some problem or other with Elis sons, taking the best parts of the sacrifices for themselves? Or insipid video series made by the pastors wife/youth group/whatever? Almost all words have their origins in the verb forms. Standing up on a stage, being the only voice heard in a comfortably organised setting where everyone is explicitly there to hear you speak, is among the most seductively intoxicating pleasures anywhere in this life. Well, I think its clear what the problem is. So why do we continue supporting this made up role? The model in the New Testament was shared leadership. Youre modeling New Testament now? Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. Acts 2:41, NKJV All the best! Lea, I think the title of pastor has lost its meaning. We are called to be like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, so the more I followed up with Davids teaching I found that he plays fast and loose with Gods word. If I had never joined a church till I had found one that was perfect, I should never have joined one at all; and the moment I did join it, if I had found one, I should have spoiled it, for it would not have been a perfect church after I had become a member of it. IMO Platt is an unethical showman, plain and simple. * But that is in keeping with his I sacrifice and live in the bad part of town for the gospel even though I travel all the time and so only my family really has to endure living there from day to day.. They say they study and write sermons for 20-25 hours a week. He said "Bill, this is Christ's body, broken for you." If one person does happen to have a message that the church feels is important to be shared across all the campuses, then that person can travel around and deliver the message in person. There were more interesting and relevant things that I cant remember from that story. In an ironic twist, the exact same thing happened at an SBC church my daughter and I attended (some time after my 2nd McLean Bible Church experience) in a different city the pastor became ill and one day announced from the pulpit who his replacement would be not even the elders appeared involved in this situation. While Platt will not be able to repeatedly use a handful of go to sermons at his church he will be able to utilize his notes from years of preaching at The Church at Brook Hills., While Platt may not technically be drawing a salary from McLean Bible Church my guess is that in a church of that size there are some wealthy members who are providing some sort of financial renumeration to Platt. David and his wife, Heather, have four children. The last time such a position existed was over 3,000 years ago, it was a special circumstance, it was explicitly ordained by the Lord Himself, and it was filled by one who was stated by God to be the most humble man in the history of the world. The Anyabwiles can draw a bigger crowd? He did nothing but travel on so-called mission trips or went to conferences and seem to be on vacation every other month. I have been hearing from a few folks. Jesus refereed to shepherds and called Himself a shepherd a number of times. I see benefit to this in those cases. Im asking God to give you Elders who are friends, and that things go well in your church. 2) And making way too much of it at the other. It evolved; a culture developed around it; rules and regulations; holidays and celebrations; the yearly church calendar; working people could show up, pay up, and leave; eventually the CEO posted a job roster for the volunteers; duties and titles; gender roles; power and access became linked to donated money; book$ and conference$ and web$ite$ and broadcast$; celebrity and status; trips and missions and safaris; etc. And the buzz word missional has taken over their thought process. It is also a biological code. McLean is new to theSouthern Baptist Convention. But there were no other pastors. With one exception: If I was a pastor, I can understand taking 20-25 hours for study and sermon preparation. There are plenty of people in Nepal, grafting away for little personal glory. Do we then marginalize the spiritually handicapped after weve sold them the uniform white, conforming to you, mass produced bread? sigh. Being precedes doing, and that doing of mission also requires the Holy Spirit. one head person to be the primary teacher and CEO of a fellowship, big or small, to whom all, if push comes to shove, must ultimately submit. He will have no administrative or pastoral duties other than simply preaching on Sunday. everyone who knows the Lord has a calling to the ministry, all of us are high priests, and every calling is of utmost importance. My point was in response to a completely different statement the idea that we are saved to go on missions. Same here. @ Hope: Did anything ever become of this at the IMB? To understand him better, read his book Radical. Paul preached in the open, in a rented room, in synagogues, and in writing while on house arrest. Dr. Platt would serve as Teaching Pastor, not Senior Pastor, he would not be involved in overall day-to-day leadership in the church, and he would not receive a salary for his role at MBC. Something feels very wrong about this transition and I am less than overwhelmed by Platt. One of the benefits this boundary has brought to our church is that we are very clearly not a pastor-centered church. I learned recently that these titles are very important in that world. Absolutely not. Pastor has lost its meaning entirely, much like the terms gospel and biblical. Lift up your voice mightily, O Christian, bearer of Jesus good news; lift it up, do not fear. Jesus preached and taught at the temple, in the open air and in the home of Martha/Mary and Lazarus as well as in the synagogues and sent the seventy out to wherever they could get somebody to listen. He actually knew my name and used it. My husband had tears in his eyes. (Formerly pastored by Joshua Harris and C.J. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LML6SoNE7xE. +++++++++++++++++++++++. Whos We? We are in a church in which the pastors do show love and humility. Look for a church in which the pastor knows your name and will sit by your bedside when you are in the hospital. Well, theyre not laughing now, are they? What I see happening is horrifying. The best theologians can go off track if left to themselves and their own view of scripture. Zechzav wrote: Take this opportunity to tell these supposed *pastors* what you think a pastor should be. David Platt had disgraced us with his presence in the UK last year. Apparently this post is getting a lot of play out there. It evolved; a culture developed around it; rules and regulations; holidays and celebrations; the yearly church calendar; working people could show up, pay up, and leave; eventually the CEO posted a job roster for the volunteers; duties and titles; gender roles; power and access became linked to donated money; book$ and conference$ and web$ite$ and broadcast$; celebrity and status; trips and missions and safaris; etc. This leaves the door wide open for our congregation to see areas of leadership where they are needed, and to respond accordingly.. His rise to national prominence has inspired many people with speech impediments. Just like the Priests of the old Egyptian gods. It is an honor to have your presence and your concerned comments here at The Wartburg Watch. Imagine my surprise when I arrived there to find that (a) they had moved way down US Route 7 to (b) an unimaginably large campus complete with coffee shop, gym, etc., you get the picture. No longer is this business an artisan bakery, but a big time corporation. (The Marriott or Hilton, I cant recall which) Dave Furman, pastor at Redeemer Church of Dubai (the sponsor of the event) went along with the charade and was one of several who were filmed with their faces blackened to hide their identity as they were interviewed. It is not a place where 1 man is in charge. Jesus called us friends not pets. A Christian (?) But I have to ask, how can the walking podcast be my shepherd? What I see happening is horrifying. These friendships take years to cultivate. A person who has a stroke, an accident or birth defect may have speech and language problems. In a TWW postEd Stetzer and the Four Fence Posts that Define His Ministry, Stetzerexplained what he didand didnot do as a bi-vocational pastor. Please remember the Bible directly implies: All men will die in their sins unless they are converted, so when the Bible talks about the new birth(2), it is very, very important. If you have a good class and good friends in that class, keep going. As a former member of Brook Hills where David was once my pastor, I am concerned about this. This is why ecclessiolgy and philosophy of ministry is so important. My husband said something that has stuck with me the past few months. I have been hearing from a few folks. 34:1-10)? What a relief. Platt can recite long Scripture passages from memory and moves from one precise biblical reference to another to back up his points, which focus heavily on For me, its a point of emphasis. Sovereign Grace Ministries A Proverbial Shortcut To Mushrooms, Perhaps?, I think we should get off the road (1), Lon knows quite clearly that the people of McLean Bible Church dont throw stones, Spy David is a teacher to the world, literally, online, through his books, through the IMB, etc. I like the idea that, should I actually need real pastoral care at some point, it will be an option. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HPqDaKajSnQ Must be a slow reading inefficient thinker.). I saw this with the vicar of an Anglican church I used to go to. I know, I mean, how many golf stories can one hear? Law Prof said, Given my personal state, thats not exactly comforting! Thats another contemporary trend so why not ape it in the church? @ Hope: Smyth started preaching at CLC on January 8, 2017. The pastor spends no time ministering to the congregation or outside it. Web9. Some churches in my area have a Farmers Market on weekends in their parking lot. We are there as a BODY to ask what can we do to GLORIFY GOD?, @ Chris: Im familiar with the loophole, it is another one of those things that violates my classical liberal sensibilities as does the property tax exclusion that no other non-profit enjoys. I heard that allegedly most of the folks in his mega prefer Heath Lambert to preach. Sadly, nothing. This year Ive been watching 5 churches that broadcast their worship live on Sundays. Im astonished this is not the done thing, at least in my town. The response I had no right to ask to speak to the pastor, the pastor is a very busy man (busy doing what?) We need a place to exercise our gifts, and to receive those of others connected to the body and functioning. @ Gram3: ishy wrote: @ Bridget: Their doctrines are like leaven and Jesus warned us to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees. To shepherd is literally to feed. Also, the church scattered (during the week) is where much evangelism and service takes place, because they have just been fed on Gods great love. Yes, but Platt played the deep sense of calling (from God) card. Perhaps he isnt really so committed to being radical? Still, he remained there 8 years and was sent off to the IMB with cheers and praise. That makes me sad. I use Word, revelation, and proclamation almost inter-changeably. I think that people are more comfortable with Jesus loves me (a song) than they are with keep my commandments (a direct quote from the mouth of Jesus) and some folks find it easy to play the two off against each other in order to avoid whatever they want to avoid and take advantage of whatever they want to take advantage of. David is no Paul. They said its a new testament model so it is. Remembering your thoughts from another post equating charismatics need for a sign (miracles) and evangelicals need for a sign (changed lives), I suppose preaching is another sign that is used to mesmerise the patrons, and like you suggest, build an empire. We respect Dr. Platt and his sense of the Lords leading; and we recognize our responsibility to hold him accountable for his work leading the International Mission Board. Were paying, sometimes til it drives us into financial ruin, to be abused. I mean, they were so mad I have no doubt theyre trying to find me. Blogs. I think a marriage of convenience took place, and human nature made sure that it stayed that way when things became very inconvenient a few short years later. In some cases, a speech impediment Was Peter a pastor to these souls or just a talking head? And he has a whiff of self-righteousness about him. Translation: I want the congregation to pay me (out of their hard earned money) to read John Piper and Gospel Glitterati books all day and fob off the real work to someone else. Im fine with paying staff, pastors, etc, but dont insist theres a New Testament mandate for the paid career program we see. Presented by a city councilman and including several city engineers. WebDavid Platt Is Ready to Leave the IMB. Both should be evident, though. My reference to man was meant as human.. In the United States, theres a reason for that, and it has to do with income taxes. In many of them, and also non-denoms, they are both shallow AND long. . i called every single one. I do think ministry of the Word takes precedence over pastoral care. What a perfect way to capture the video presenter multi-site phenomenon. In other words, ISTM that the Mohler faction has won that war. Its no wonder men want it for themselves; its no wonder so many idealistic, but ambitious and easily-seduced young men are both dazzled by those who find fame and fortune doing it, and want it for themselves. Never did. So if someone says they want a handholding pastor rather than someone preaching the truth of the Word, we can accept that. So why do we continue supporting this made up role? I wouldt read too much into that experience. I hope Ive answered your question. But if somebody puts out substance I will sit on the pew and put money in the plate and forgive an awful lot to get it. Lol. Both should be evident, though. Books. Apparently this post is getting a lot of play out there. feeling tension over what is duplicitous, deceitful, self-promoting under the cover of God is a healthy response. Ok, maybe Im missing something but hes offering to preach for free, the church is being very wise in theyre decision making, David Platt knows his family and what he needs to do to spend time with him. David Platts mission, whether he realizes it or not, is to make MBC a social justice church. Yes, if nothing else I wonder how much of a burden these self-acclaimed superman leaders put on the rest of us who cannot seem to do as much as they do. Law Prof wrote: He always seems to focus on relational aspects, having a good marriage and family life, caring for each other in the church Never a guilt trip about not being missional enough. Head pastor, lead pastor, teaching pastor, senior pastor, preaching pastor, associate pastor, assistant pastor, worship pastor, music pastor, youth pastor, college pastor, building services pastor, executive pastor Best to believe and follow Jesus, rather than in any man. Speech is a complex process that requires precise timing, nerve and muscle control, and as a result is susceptible to impairments. The emphasis was on have to have not whether the person in the pulpit was a man or a woman. Of course, mission should be a function of a healthy church. This is one of the things my church actually makes a concerted effort to doopen the facilities throughout the week to various groups. His view was that too many immature Christians are going overseas and they cause lots of problems. If Im not mistaken, K. Deyoung is also a competitive masters runner. I do see the Body of Christ doing all those things, and more, but not paid clergy. Yes marketing is creating more customers, and increased investment in distribution helps to deliver the product and access to more markets; but a shifting of resource allocation and cost-cutting measures are needed. I never really made it past the Introduction in the book 9 Marks of a Healthy Church because he did not include prayer in the 9 Marks. Ever wonder (Wonder Bread) why the lame and the blind are mentioned so often together in scripture? Or do you mean the Mega New Testament Church model, in which the large full-time staff are comfortably paid wages from the offering baskets of the local believers (believers that they must manage) especially the ones who are sharing leadership with them on a non-paid basis, fitting it around the hours they work to earn money to live. With Mac Brunson you see tweets about Lambert and Mohler and trivializing the impact of Irma on the community while whining about the minor ways it inconvenienced him personally. I came across the Disasko reference here. Look to Him & His word and learn Honorable Little Christ'(tm) , share what youve learned with others, The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever. It is a sad fact of mega-church psychology that people like to be associated with stars. one person i talked to went to so far as to say we cant allow this, or else our tax-exempt status would be jeopardized. Heres the line he gave then when questioned about the issue: http://www.bpnews.net/43260/www.bpnews.net/43240/cooperation-central-to-platts-vision-at-imb. Soon the hospital evidences a growing problem. Maybe the problem is not David Platt but the mega church experience. When I was in my former church, my husband, a friend and I led a Sunday school class that was well attended. So, a bit of a frustrating afternoon/evening trying to instal jUnit on the Mac. WebDavid Platt Occupation Hairdresser Born 25th December 1990 Birthplace Weatherfield Residence 8 Coronation Street Father Martin Platt Mother Gail Rodwell Sibling (s) Nick Tilsley (half-brother) Sarah Platt (half-sister) Charlotte Platt (half-sister) Spouse (s) Kylie Turner (2011) Shona Ramsey (2019) Children Lily Platt (2013) Max Turner (legal son) : > God so loved YOU that He sent His only Son, Jesus, that if YOU will believe in Him, YOU will not perish, but receive Gods eternal life. think of how useful the church facility could be to the community instead of sitting closed up 96% of the week. And in most of these churches, members arent allowed to do much ministry either, because they have paid staff for that who make 4-10x more than the average member of the congregation. So yes, I do think they dont really care about the other things, too. I can see how this could be the cast for new converts, in the same way that newborns depend on the pre-digested proteins of milk. How in the world can they ever learn the names of their people. i would love to see an accounting illustration, showing how much each tax payer in a pastors neighborhood has to contribute to cover the shortfall of the public services which the pastor enjoys and expects. The gospel [good news(tm) ] that Jesus presents in John 3:16, for those that are infected with Calvinism, is simply not enough. Voice disorder. MBC needs to pray for discernment and examine Davids teachings. Having been in SBC churches for 20 years, I can honestly say that most megachurch sermons are shallow and quite devoid of teaching of Scripture. Please let me know so that I dont continue to trigger you or others. We have greatly improved our administration (add ministry) for which I am thankful. C. J. Mahaney was a promoter of toxic Calvinism for years and look what happen to those who were fed a steady diet of it at his SGM churches. Please keep up the good study. It is not the whole. Sometimes, the flock is so tired and exhausted that it goes for a happy meal or a snippet. I wonder when. It has been assigned to any imaginable paid position in an institutional church. Theres even a well known chicken barbecue company. So if it is the means then why are people upset when Platt says that people need to get with it regarding the means? Im not there yet. but in the church gathered there is order of service (not chaos) and some invested authority (dont want to debate who and how much, just that it exists). Bridget, I have been hearing from a few folks. I embrace imperfection. I dont know Platt. Have you seen what their next conference is going to be? David Platt, An MBC (1) Teaching Pastor, Is Infected With Calvinism. (Dont let him infect you!). (PS: We would like to know how many of Ed Stetzer church plants survived.It's a little hard to get that number). So many turn to sermon services and hide in their offices reading books or doing anything else but writing their sermon. Improvements in administration were sorely needed and we have become better stewards. Sure, theyll get a real piece of work for a pastor now and again, but hes usually removed before the damage can escalate. Many in the radical reformation rejected that idea as unbiblical. Mohler does as he pleases, as far as I can tell. Its like a code for the party apparatus, comrade. It is a very odd collection of characters. This week, it was announced thatDavid Plattwill soon be voted on to be the new teaching pastor atMcLean Bible Church. These pastors do a lot of fund raising in the USA, selling themselves as making a huge impact on the muslim world for the cause of Christ. Paul, on the other hand, addresses pastoring in practicing detail, in some of the epistles. WebAt the minute 4:40, David Platt said that we [Christians at T4G] in a sinful world have blind spots that we cannot see on our own and I fear that I, that we, dont really want to see them. Then he used the text of Amos, and the idea of the sinful Jews described in that book of the Bible, as a parallel to the audience.
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